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Post by imperator03 on Mar 3, 2011 20:28:31 GMT -5
I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction. The United States is headed towards a Second Civil War. The reason will be much like the first, who has ultimate authority; the states or the national government. Unlike the first, the main issue won't be overshadowed by slavery and we, most likely, won't have too much sectionalism. Unless of course we split along red/blue lines. Then things would become interesting, in the Chinese sense of the word. Unless fiscal conservatives win this fight, I don't think there is any avoiding either a economic destruction of this country or an outright civil war just before the economy really goes in the toilet. What do you think?
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poohan
Dead Wastelander
Posts: 41
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Post by poohan on Mar 3, 2011 21:36:58 GMT -5
after reading a lot of your posts its pretty obvious your a conservative so of course you think there will be civil war and economic destruction if they dont win. dont be so one sided. as for the actual topic here, i suppose civil war is always a possibility. yes even if the conservatives are in control.
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Post by imperator03 on Mar 3, 2011 21:44:52 GMT -5
after reading a lot of your posts its pretty obvious your a conservative so of course you think there will be civil war and economic destruction if they dont win. dont be so one sided. as for the actual topic here, i suppose civil war is always a possibility. yes even if the conservatives are in control. Bite your tongue. I am no such thing. I'm a libertarian and proud of it. It's not about winning and losing, it's about being smart and being dumb. If anything it's the so-called liberals who are going to cause the war. Look at those parasites in Wisconsin. Only teachers unions would complain in a declining economy that they are being asked to pay too much, when they don't pay much at all for their benefits. Benefits that most private sector people are having to do without. Since the private sector pays for the public sector's wages and benefits, I'd say the Wisconsin leadership is looking out for the regular guy, not the privileged ones. Or do you really think that teachers, who incidentally have been slowly failing to educate kids over the last 30 years really need raises despite their failure at their jobs. Not to mention that most of them were using sick days from their cush benefits package to protest instead of, you know, doing their jobs.
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Post by King of the Wastes on Mar 3, 2011 21:48:42 GMT -5
No fighting poohan. Also on the subject. If there is a second war I think it will be over the federal government taking away the people's right's. It seems like every day some group is trying to take away some right. And personally I don't think that either the republicans or democrat's will be able to do anything better than the other, which is why I plan to vote Trump if he announces he is running. Either which way, we are just going to be choosing between a turd sandwich and a giant douche.
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poohan
Dead Wastelander
Posts: 41
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Post by poohan on Mar 3, 2011 22:16:55 GMT -5
libertarians are conservatives dont fool yourself. my family has people from all over the political spectrum and my libertarian aunt and uncles political points of view match my conservative grandparents almost word for word. my uncle is always paranoid about different ways the government is out to get us but im not sure if thats part of being a libertarian. since im being bitched at about picking fights ill shut up now lol
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Post by imperator03 on Mar 3, 2011 22:19:24 GMT -5
No fighting poohan. Also on the subject. If there is a second war I think it will be over the federal government taking away the people's right's. It seems like every day some group is trying to take away some right. And personally I don't think that either the republicans or democrat's will be able to do anything better than the other, which is why I plan to vote Trump if he announces he is running. Either which way, we are just going to be choosing between a turd sandwich and a giant douche. That was a great episode. You're right, this issue won't be resolved by any of the parties. This sort of thing, political parties, were never envisioned by the Founders, at least not most of them. The first political party, the Federalists, were created by Alexander Hamilton as a way to make the US more like the UK. Mercantilist and ruled by an aristocracy. Jefferson created the Democratic-Republican party, later known as the Democrats, after the antics of the Adams administration, especially the Alien and Sedition Act. Unfortunately, a last minute change to the judiciary, the Judiciary Act of 1801, enabled the Federalists to put their stamp of legislation after they fell from power. When Chief Justice Marshall gave the Supreme Court the power to rule on laws passed by Congress, this also gave the Federalist judges the ability to block Democratic-Republican legislation and, later, push Whig legislation (which was really Federalist in nature) and enshrine it in US law. A study of history and how underhanded people are really helps one in understanding what went wrong with our country and how far we have really fallen from our founding principles. poohan might not understand why I oppose laws that "defend" traditional marriage, but it's because I don't believe the state has any right to determine how people should live and this includes who they want to share their life with. He might consider that a "liberal" viewpoint, but the reality is a bit more nuanced than that.
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Post by King of the Wastes on Mar 3, 2011 23:22:44 GMT -5
I personally think that gay's should be allowed the right to marriage, but I also think we should execute pedophiles when they rape children. I am a registered independent now, originally a republican. I see corruption in both parties, and a unwillingness to actually do what need's to be done.
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Post by imperator03 on Mar 3, 2011 23:30:59 GMT -5
I personally think that gay's should be allowed the right to marriage, but I also think we should execute pedophiles when they rape children. I am a registered independent now, originally a republican. I see corruption in both parties, and a unwillingness to actually do what need's to be done. I'm not sure about the marriage thing, but the real reason gays want civil unions is so that they can get their other on a healthplan or something like that. I don't believe in things like the income tax or Social Security so I won't argue those, but as for the healthplan thing; that should be between the employee and employer, not anyone else. A good employer will try to accommodate this person if he's a good employee as good employees are hard to find. If he's a poor employee or the boss is stupid, benefits will not be extended and the gay person can then vote with their feet and find a more compatible employer. In this case everyone gets what they want and you don't have to pass laws that make people resentful towards authority.
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Post by King of the Wastes on Mar 3, 2011 23:48:41 GMT -5
People will be resentful no matter what happens though, big brother is a easy target.
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Post by imperator03 on Mar 4, 2011 0:05:57 GMT -5
People will be resentful no matter what happens though, big brother is a easy target. Not really. If there is no central authority, then who will you be resentful towards. What you will have is people voting with their feet so that they will live and work with people who have philosophies compatible with each other. Basically you'll have people who don't believe in gay marriage live in certain communities and people who do believe in it live in other communities and the people who don't care can live where they want. No laws, which means no compulsion and that will have the effect of harmonizing society. Not so much uniting as one, but leaving people to live their lives as they see fit.
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Post by vault72 on Mar 4, 2011 1:55:10 GMT -5
As far as a civil war goes I can see many, many different groups rising to stake a claim and enforce their viewpoint by gun point as often it is done when enforcable order has lost it's bite. All one can do is either join a group with a compatible viewpoint as their own, create their own group, hide, pray for the best, take the cowards plunge into oblivion or raise hell behind the lines. As political systems change, all one can hope for under the circumstances is that the new system is less corrupt but oft times they usually aren't. I'm not a political person by any means, I just vote for the lesser of two A@$holes
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poohan
Dead Wastelander
Posts: 41
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Post by poohan on Mar 4, 2011 14:48:48 GMT -5
i support gay marriage pretty much for the same reason. if america really is the land of the free then we shouldnt be passing laws like that. not so sure about this anarchy thing your going on about though. no central authority or laws? yeah that worked out great for somalia didnt it? just look at their vastly improved lives. put people into communities depending on their beliefs? sounds an awful lot like a tribe with a shiny new name. before you know it the anti-gay and pro-gay "communities" will start killing each other over their viewpoints, especially if theres no law or central authority to stop them.
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Post by vault72 on Mar 5, 2011 2:36:30 GMT -5
I have to agree with KOW and Poohan on this one, I fail to see what the big issue is with gay marriage. Religious nuts keep preaching that the bible defines marriage as a union bewteen a man and a woman, ever heard of seperation of church and state? Nor do I want to hear about the defense of the marriage act of 1996 when the debate of gay marriage really kicked off, let them be as miserable as the rest of us No laws huh? That's just hilarious, this isn't star trek so things would resemble the african tribal lands. Yeah that's a peaceful place, people running all around hacking at one another with machettes just because they are in different tribes, yeah I guess it could work, if you lobotomized everyone so they all just walk in circles drooling, have a toast to the end of the human race then.
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Post by King of the Wastes on Mar 6, 2011 21:18:08 GMT -5
Hey now, lets keep discussion's more civil. No need for negative gibber gabber.
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Post by vault72 on Mar 6, 2011 21:31:28 GMT -5
Sorry for that foljks, I had been awake for over 24 hours so I have a tendency to get alittle testy, my bad, some viewpoints rubbed me the wrong way, it's suppose to be up not down, get it right next time ?
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