poohan
Dead Wastelander
Posts: 41
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Post by poohan on Mar 29, 2011 21:50:39 GMT -5
the "machine" is too big so dont bother to try changing it? could you imagine if the colonists thought the same thing? inveniam viam aut faciam (ill either find a way or make one) if you want to change something change it.
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Post by imperator03 on Mar 30, 2011 15:23:07 GMT -5
the "machine" is too big so dont bother to try changing it? could you imagine if the colonists thought the same thing? inveniam viam aut faciam (ill either find a way or make one) if you want to change something change it. That's, in retrospect, probably the wrong analogy. Besides, the colonials had one great advantage. They were several thousand miles away from the King and exploited that ruthlessly. Let's just say that in economics there is often times a lag between cause and effect. The Clinton monetary policy took almost a decade to collapse, the Bush housing fiasco took several years to collapse, the Obama spending spree will take some time to be felt. That you cannot change. Neither can you change the behavior of the major political parties. Between the two of them, they have the electoral system locked up between them so that you really cannot find alternatives to their candidates. While not impossible to change, the fact that the electoral process isn't even in the national discussion means that most people don't get it. Since they don't get it, there will be no change there. What remains to be seen is if the Tea Party will revolt and offer a third alternative. It would gut the Republican party like the Democratic party got gutted in the last election, but you shouldn't shed tears about that. In my opinion the Dems are on the way out. They have a radical base for support, well that and people dependent on the government for their welfare, so they can't hope to remain in the mainstream. The Republicans have a real change to show their different, but they've always been "Democrat-lite" in their leanings because at heart most politicians are risk-adverse to the point of insanity. The only real question is will we effect change before or after a total economic collapse. So you're right, the machine will collapse, the only real question is how. |
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Post by vault72 on Apr 3, 2011 5:45:59 GMT -5
Wrong analogy, a train can be derailed before a preposed point of impact, I'm not the type who is afraid to rock the boat, I believe in sinking it as I figure I can swim better then most. The system you are referring to, a third or more party system versus the two party system being locked up, in that arguement I have to agree with you that they have the system rigged to really only support the two parties especially when it comes to the war chest presidential canidate financing and party affiliation versus the best canidate for the job voting practices of the sheeple majority.
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Post by imperator03 on Apr 3, 2011 12:00:11 GMT -5
Wrong analogy, a train can be derailed before a preposed point of impact, I'm not the type who is afraid to rock the boat, I believe in sinking it as I figure I can swim better then most. The system you are referring to, a third or more party system versus the two party system being locked up, in that arguement I have to agree with you that they have the system rigged to really only support the two parties especially when it comes to the war chest presidential canidate financing and party affiliation versus the best canidate for the job voting practices of the sheeple majority. Sure trains can be derailed, but the analogy is only that, an analogy. I still don't see any real discussion on where I am wrong in my logic. I don't neccesarily disagree that people can make a difference, at least locally, but when you start talking about large-scale movements and groups, that's where real trouble begins. I really like to look at our Revolutionary War for ideas on how to do things right. There you had a few men who had very specific ideas on what kind of society they wanted. The fought for it, not without trying other methods beforehand, but still had to fight. One thing few people realize is how not all the Founders believed in the same vision for their new nation. Hamilton, in particular, wanted to recreate the British system on American soil, the only beef he had with the British was that he didn't have access to power. By helping the Revolution become successful, he would be at the center of power, something he would not able to be close to in the British society of his time. That's the problem with people who like power. Getting them to give it up without recourse to violence. The same Revolution that gave us liberty also sowed the seeds that has been taking our liberty from us almost since the Founding. It's all well and good to rock the boat, but unless your boat rocking is effective, all you're really doing is wasting time, energy and opportunity. A study of history shows that major turning events come down to very small discrete decisions. In essence you have to wait until the right time to make your move. Look at the Tea Party. When Ron Paul ran in 2008 he got some support but nothing like what turned out in 2009-2010. The time just wasn't right. Although he's been sounding the alarm for decades and doing the spadework, it will take more than just that to shift us to a sustainable economic path. Don't expect the political class to get behind it though, because the changes we need will necessarily erode the power they have to buy votes. |
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Post by vault72 on Apr 3, 2011 19:05:32 GMT -5
What is your take on Ron Paul?
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Post by imperator03 on Apr 3, 2011 22:06:36 GMT -5
What is your take on Ron Paul? He's probably the one true statesman of our time. He has consistently voted against bills that enable the President to do things not authorized by the Constitution, he's voted for bills that try to restore balance not only between the branches, but between the federal and state government. He's the grand old man of the Tea Party movement, he's been talking Tea Party stuff for the last 30 years. And now he's in charge of the committee that oversees the Fed. That is too ironic. |
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Post by vault72 on Apr 4, 2011 19:39:39 GMT -5
Just checking cause I'm a supporter of Ron Paul. I guess we have SOME things in common  |
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Post by imperator03 on Apr 4, 2011 21:02:11 GMT -5
Just checking cause I'm a supporter of Ron Paul. I guess we have SOME things in common Really? You might want to read some more of his stuff. Also check out the site of the Austrian School of Economics, the one school of economic thought he endorses. www.mises.org |
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Post by vault72 on Apr 5, 2011 5:03:36 GMT -5
Cool thanx I'll check it out.
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Post by imperator03 on Apr 7, 2011 18:57:21 GMT -5
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